Legislature(2015 - 2016)BUTROVICH 205
02/18/2016 03:30 PM Senate EDUCATION
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB174 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 174 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 174-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIV. OF AK
3:34:53 PM
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS announced the consideration of SB 174. He
said the purpose of the meeting is to take public testimony.
Public testimony will remain open after the meeting.
3:37:10 PM
CALLIE CONERTON, Student Body President, University of Alaska-
Southeast, testified in opposition to SB 174. She listed the
reasons why she opposes the bill. She said she trusts the
university to keep her safe with their rules and policies
regarding concealed carry. She opined that the university is not
a place where a person needs access to a firearm. Some students
attending UAS are under 18 and are dually enrolled in high
school and in college. There are campus tours for K-12 students
and student and staff with children.
She pointed out that Alaska has no required concealed carry
permits and there is no guarantee that a person knows the right
way to operate a firearm, is in the right state of mind, and has
had no criminal convictions. Guns in dorms provide easy access
to weapons by roommates and visitors who could operate the
firearm under the influence. The bill would not allow the
university to take guns away in risky circumstances. She said
she knows basic firearm safety and has friends who hunt, but she
would not feel safe if students could carry a firearms on
campus.
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS requested Ms. Conerton state her association
with the legislature.
MS. CONERTON responded that she is the student body president at
UAS and Vice Chair for the Coalition of Student Leaders.
SENATOR GIESSEL and Senator Huggins thanked Ms. Conerton.
3:40:53 PM
LORA VESS, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, University of Alaska-
Southeast, testified in strong opposition to SB 174. She related
that she is neither for nor against gun ownership or use. She
maintained that institutions of higher learning are not the
appropriate setting to wage a battle over the right to possess
firearms. She said many of her students are struggling to find
their adult identity and to develop a sense of self. The bill
adds another potential variable into their transition from
adolescence to adulthood.
She said she does not want to work in an environment where there
may be concealed firearms in the classroom and students
shouldn't have to learn in one. She concluded that she is
concerned that the bill is ideologically driven with a narrow
conceptualization of freedom and liberty that has nothing to do
with the operations or needs of Alaska's universities, or the
safety of the thousands of students, faculty, staff, visitors,
and minors on Alaska campuses. She said she stands in support
with the Board of Regents, United Students of UAS, Student
Services Council of UA, and others.
3:44:20 PM
COLIN OSTERHOUT, representing himself, testified in opposition
to SB 174. He said he works for UAS and believes that the bill
is a hasty attempt to pass legislation that is due to personally
held beliefs, done so without sufficient research or advice from
the university system. He said he is a gun owner who does not
feel that firearms belong on campus and that they stifle the
free, creative expression of ideas. He maintained that UAS is a
special small community and energy and time should be spent on
fostering that community, and to reach out to students who may
be struggling. He suggested addressing security concerns in
other ways. He shared his experience at Virginia Tech and said
he can envision where the shootings occurred. He concluded that
SB 174 is misguided.
SENATOR GARDNER thanked Mr. Osterhout for his emails and for
testifying in person.
3:47:46 PM
PAUL SWETZOVF, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He said the university cannot have a law that is more
restrictive than the state's law. He maintained that all
Alaskans have the constitutional right to bear arms. He said
there has never been a mass shooting where firearms are allowed
on campus. He referred to the Sandy Hook shooting and the lack
of defense in that situation. He said he would like his son to
have a fighting chance if there were a shooting on campus.
3:50:52 PM
DAVID WEAVER, representing himself, testified in opposition to
SB 174. He said even as a Republican and a gun owner he cannot
support the bill. As the Director of University Housing on the
Anchorage campus, he said he sees students with mental health
issues. He requested the committee consider the potential side
effects from SB 174.
3:52:49 PM
GRANT REBNE, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He suggested that the bill will protect students on
university campuses. He provided personal examples of when he
wished he had had a gun. He spoke of the increase in gun crimes
and said that relates to the reduction in the right to carry.
3:55:35 PM
RYEN-JASON HENE, representing himself, testified in opposition
to SB 174. He shared his past and current roles working with
students on campus for fifteen years. He cited the number of
student mental health issues as a reason not to allow guns on
campus. Allowing guns on campus is a step backward in supporting
education in Alaska. As of December 14, 2015, the American
Association of College and University had over 400 individual
colleges in 42 different states that signed statements against
allowing guns on college campuses.
3:57:28 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked for more information about those
statistics.
MR. HENE shared the website keepgunsoffcampus.org for that
information.
3:58:22 PM
GEORGIA DEKEYSER, representing herself, testified in strong
opposition to SB 174. She spoke of her job as UAA's director of
the Student Health and Counselor Center. As an RN she said she
has worked with students who were suicidal and who had mental
health issues. She said suicide and homicide are directly
correlated. She concluded by saying the university police are
available for student safety.
3:59:39 PM
SANDIE GILLILAND, representing herself, testified in support of
SB 174. He said he works at the Kenai Peninsula College and
would like to have more protection on campus. He shared the
"run, hide, fight" plan for when there is a shooter situation on
campus. He said he opposes the Board of Regents' policies. He
suggested two amendments to SB 174, requiring a concealed carry
permit and excluding dorms from concealed carry zones.
4:02:36 PM
STEPHANIE QUEEN, representing herself, testified in opposition
to SB 174. She shared that she volunteers at Kenai Peninsula
College. She maintained that many crimes on campus are
correlated with access to guns. She called the Board of Regents'
current policy, measured and thoughtful, and it allows for
student access to have guns on campus. She said the policy keeps
people safe so the university can focus on its core mission of
educating Alaskans.
4:04:20 PM
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS listed people that are available for
questions.
4:04:52 PM
TOM BOUTIN, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. It brings the university into compliance with state law.
He thought the sponsor was willing to work with the university.
4:06:40 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked for Chief Mallard's opinion of the bill.
4:07:35 PM
KEITH MALLARD, Chief of Police, University of Alaska Fairbanks,
testified in opposition to SB 174. He said he has many concerns
about how the bill is currently written and is hopeful about the
sponsor's willingness to work with the university. The proposed
amendments may make it workable. He did not believe that more
guns on campus would make it safer, but would increase calls for
police service, whether it be for unlawful discharge or other
firearm access problems.
4:08:57 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked what the average response time for campus
police is.
CHIEF MALLARD said about 2.5 minutes on the Fairbanks campus.
SENATOR GARDNER asked if the officers have had training for
active shooters and rapid response.
CHIEF MALLARD said yes. They actively coordinate with other law
enforcement agencies to develop response plans and they offer
violent intruder training for all on campus. They no longer
focus exclusively on mass killing events, because violence is
more likely than the reality of a shooter.
4:11:09 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL provided a hypothetical example of an assault
and asked when the response time would begin.
CHIEF MALLARD said from the point they are notified.
SENATOR GIESSEL said after the event occurs.
SENATOR GARDNER gave an example of a stalker and a victim and
asked whether the victim's safety is improved by both having a
weapon.
CHIEF MALLARD said the question is do firearms, in and of
themselves, make somebody safer. He said you could make the
argument that someone well-trained with a firearm is safer.
However, in current law, there is no requirement for training
for concealed carry. He opined that having access to a firearm
does not make you safer; being trained on how to use that
firearm does add a level of safety.
4:12:59 PM
JON QUINONES, Student, University of Alaska-Fairbanks, testified
in opposition to SB 174. He said he also serves on the student
government. He maintained that rights are not absolute, they are
conditional. He thought "heroes" might create more casualties.
He pointed out that sexual abuse is a problem at the university
and he suggested that sanctioned weapon carries would not help
the situation.
4:15:26 PM
MIKE COONS, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He said all those that he knows who carry concealed have
had training. He said gun-free zones have more shootings and the
most casualties, as compared to zones where guns are allowed. He
spoke of rape on campus and said those who are unarmed are prey
and victims. Alaskans outside campus are all armed so no one
should be afraid of them. He concluded that 2 to 29 campuses are
armed and none have had stabbings or shootings.
4:18:07 PM
RUSSELL NEWELL, representing himself, testified in opposition to
SB 174. He provided an example of a gun-free campus in Utah
where the university police could not protect a speaker.
4:20:36 PM
MAUREEN O'HANLON, representing herself, testified in opposition
to SB 174. She reported that in her job as a tutor at the Sitka
Student Success Center she works with students between the ages
of 14 to 18 on campus. She said guns on campus will not protect
students and strangers with guns are not security officers.
4:22:05 PM
CYRUS COOPER, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He thought that training should be regulated for concealed
carry. He said citizens should take action to protect others
during active shooter situations, not police. He said UAF did
not even have a police chief years ago. He maintained that
students are adults and the university should suspend students
with problems.
4:24:58 PM
DIXIE HOOD, representing herself, testified in opposition to SB
174. She shared her long experience as a counselor. She spoke in
favor of the rules that prevent concealed carry on campus
because they provide a safe campus for students, faculty, staff,
and others. She said the bill is a horrifying proposal and would
create a high risk environment on all UA grounds. Students are
still developing and they sometimes feel impervious to risk. The
bill is a political pro-gun proposal, not a constitutional right
bill.
4:27:31 PM
BRUCE SCHULTZ, Vice Chancellor, Student Affairs, University of
Alaska-Anchorage, testified in opposition to SB 174. He said he
has the responsibility, for the past 24 years, of overseeing
student life operations, including on-campus residential
communities, physical and mental health services, student
activities, and the student code of conduct. He shared that he
has been involved in more than 1,000 incidents the past 24
years, including verbal and physical assaults, harassments and
disruptions in the classroom, suicides, and grossly intoxicated
individuals. He stated that he cannot think of one of those
incidents that would have been better managed by the presence of
a concealed weapon. He said he knows, based on his professional
background and training, that hundreds of those incidents would
have escalated and required a much more aggressive response from
university officials and law enforcement if weapons were
present.
He said the university allows weapons on campus in a way that is
reasonable. The regulations are in a category where firearms are
restricted in sensitive places and are presumptively lawful and
outside the constitutional protections.
He pointed out that suicide is the second leading cause of death
for college students and thousands more attempt suicide. He said
the lack of immediate access to a means is the greatest
advantage his staff has for getting the student the intervention
they need. He said open access to firearms on campus, especially
in residence halls and counseling centers, would worsen this
serious problem as suicide attempts involving firearms are
almost always fatal. In the last two years, there have been 18
suicide attempts, 29 incidents of suicide ideation, and 42
incidences of assault, which includes domestic and dating
violence, on the Anchorage campus.
He concluded that at a time when the university is focused on
getting more students to graduate on time, SB 174 will detract
attention, consume more of already constrained resources, and
for some students, interfere with their ability to learn. The
overwhelming majority of the 4,400 universities in the U.S.
prohibit the carrying of firearms on their campuses.
4:30:06 PM
SENATOR GARDNER requested he send his written testimony to the
committee.
MR. SCHULTZ said he would and that he has already sent a letter
to Chair Dunleavy.
SENATOR STEVENS asked for more information about "consuming
resources."
MR. SCHULTZ said the university trains and relies heavily on
student residency advisors who are 18-20 years old to monitor
and confront the behavior of their peers. The introduction of
weapons into these high density and sometimes highly charged
living environments would mean that student advisors could no
longer be the first line of intervention. The university will
need to seriously consider adding trained law enforcement
officers. The same could be said for the work that goes on in
the health and counseling centers.
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS shared a story of having a shotgun in his
room. He asked if things have changed.
MR. SCHULTZ said the university does allow weapons on campus in
a reasonable fashion.
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS spoke of presumed guilt instead of presumed
innocence in policies for those who commit sexual assault.
4:33:00 PM
MR. SCHULTZ looked at it differently. He said the university is
very concerned about incidents of sexual assault on college
campuses. The investigation is not focusing on personal
protection at the time of the attack. Most of the incidents
occur during dating violence and high intoxication. To be
effective in changing that culture on campus, the university
provides information and programs focusing on respect before
students even get to college.
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS requested the university's written policy on
sexual assault.
4:34:13 PM
ARNOLD LIEBELT, representing himself, testified in opposition to
SB 174. He thought the system had failed in order to get to this
point in society. He said guns are inherently dangerous and
humans are inherently unpredictable and to put the two together
on college campuses is a bad idea. He understood the intent of
the bill, but thought putting more guns into the hands of people
on campuses was not going to solve the problem, but complicate
it. He did not understand the analogy of "bad guys with guns."
If the problem is that there are too many guns in the hands of
bad people, the solution is to get the guns away from them. He
said that 19 states have passed this type of legislation. He
suggested not rushing to join that group. He concluded that he
considers the bill to be "state overreach." Universities
understand this issue very well, and if they are not on board,
the bill should not pass.
4:37:14 PM
TIMOTHY ROBINSON, representing himself, testified in opposition
to SB 174. He pointed out that the committee has heard a
resounding "do not pass this bill." He thought the bill would be
defeated if everyone could vote on it. He said that maybe
faculty should be allowed to have guns, but students do not need
to be running around with guns on campus. Young people are prone
to swings of emotion. He shared that his son committed suicide.
4:38:48 PM
MATTHEW OSTRANDER, representing himself, testified in opposition
to SB 174. He said he is vice president of the Union of
Students, the recognized government organization at UAA. He
stated opposition to concealed carry when there are K-12
students on college campuses. He gave examples of when students
are on campus, such as for drama, debate, and forensics
tournaments. He suggested adding an amendment to the effect that
concealed carry cannot be in areas where K-12 students are.
4:40:42 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked if it is practical to exclude concealed
carry on campus when there are K-12 programs on campus.
MR. OXANDER thought there could be areas that are set apart,
such as eliminating specific areas and certain buildings from
concealed carry. He agreed it could mean a complete ban of
concealed carry.
4:42:16 PM
At ease
4:43:58 PM
JOE BYRNES, Staff, Representative Kelley, Alaska State
Legislature, provided information regarding SB 174. He said the
section of the bill regarding civil immunity was suggested by
the university. He noted there were two people available to
answer questions.
SENATOR STEVENS referred to line 19 on page 2 of the bill and
asked how the university would be immune from civil liability.
4:45:50 PM
MATT COOPER, General Counsel, University of Alaska-Fairbanks,
addressed the civil immunity issues in SB 174. He said there is
nothing to prevent someone from filing a lawsuit against the
university. The university maintains that an immunity provision
in the statute could result in a move to dismiss - an
affirmative defense and an absolute bar to the litigation. He
offered to prepare a memo on that issue.
4:47:21 PM
SENATOR GARDNER spoke of liability waivers not holding water.
She asked if an immunity is granted in statute it is different.
MR. COOPER replied it would be different; it is similar to
immunities found in Title IX and in the Good Samaritan Act which
are more effective than a liability waiver.
4:48:45 PM
SENATOR GARDNER asked how effective it would be - 100 percent or
having some risk.
MR. COOPER could not say it would be 100 percent effective.
4:49:18 PM
At ease
4:49:48 PM
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS noted more testifiers online.
JAMES SQUYRES, representing himself, testified in support of SB
174. He said the gun-free zone is unconstitutional and is a kill
zone. He said the average gun fight is 2.5 seconds. Students
should be trusted with this right.
4:51:14 PM
NEAL KOENEMAN, Student, UAA, testified in opposition to SB 174.
He said he does not feel safe at a campus where, to be just as
safe as the next person, he has to be armed all the time. He
stated that if he was to carry a handgun, he would not trust
himself or other students to use a gun in a fire fight.
4:52:21 PM
HAYLEY CAVITT, Student, UAA, testified in opposition to SB 174.
She voiced concern that faculty members would be put at risk
under this bill as they often have to deal with unruly students.
She said she would hate to see them leave the university because
they feared for their own lives.
VICE CHAIR HUGGINS kept public testimony open and held SB 174 in
committee.
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